Caitlin Bacher:
My name is Caitlin Bacher, founder and CEO of Scale with Success®. And I’m on a mission to help course creators, all over the world grow their business in a way that is profitable and scalable. We are sharing revealing conversations about what it really takes to scale an online course business to millions of dollars per year. Join us here to discover the tough decisions we’ve had to make, the biggest failures we’ve had to bounce back from, and the learnings that emerged every step of the way. We are so grateful that we have the chance to share it all with you right here on Scale with Success®: The Podcast Built for Course Creators. Let’s get started.
I can relate to this statement that I’m going to share with you. This is, for sure, something that I would’ve said long ago, when thinking about getting to the root cause. What is causing you to hire people who don’t have the skills and traits that you need. So if you look at this as a people problem, then you might think something like, “Oh, something is fundamentally wrong with me. And I keep attracting disorganized people. And I guess I’m just not good at hiring, which means I will never succeed, which means I should go get a part-time job, which means I should not be a business owner.” And then you’re just spiraling out of control. I, a hundred percent have been that person, where I’m very focused on people, as opposed to process. And so a different way of thinking about it, a more advanced business owner would think about it… which is why I love the way this question was submitted… is not a people problem. It’s a process problem.
If you continue to hire people that are disorganized, for a specific role, like VA specifically that are disorganized, not detail oriented, not competent, something’s missing in your hiring process, because you’ve hired other people that are good at what they do. And so what we need to do is to look at high level… This is taken from this is taken directly from the 30 Day Hiring Process. Let’s look at this and let’s see if we can pinpoint some opportunities, something that we are not doing in the hiring process, that we can begin to do, that’s going to filter out people who are not competent, who are not organized and all of that.
So in week one, basically it’s prep and post. So you’re using the role description template to create a detailed list. Kind of like how I did earlier over here, with the nitty gritty tasks, like schedule social media, schedule emails, tag in Active Campaign, whatever. So making sure that you’re using the role description to get really, really clear on what the specific things that they’re going to be doing. And then making sure that you are filling out the job post description, which we also have a template for in that training, writing out the job application, creating the test assignment, creating a calendar link for scheduling interviews, da, da, da, da.
So then week two is collecting and screening. So you’re screening through the applications, with a phone call. So typically I like to try to get on the phone with… Well, not me anymore, but someone on my team gets on the phone with like 15 people. So we want to start with looking at all the 90 applicants that you have… which is awesome… from those 90 applicants, identifying 15 people that you want to call and just ask some follow-up questions with.
And after those follow-up questions from the phone, then you can determine who you want to move forward with, with like the top five. And the top five is who you want to invite to a formal interview, like on Zoom. You can also have someone on your team interview them as well, just to get a different perspective. So they can have an interview with you. They can have an interview with someone on your team. And then from that group of five people, select your top three. And then assign the top three candidates a test project.
So when it comes to building and assigning a test project, there is four basic steps to it. So what you first want to do is create a test project. And what you’re looking for is what I call that domino task. Like dominoes, you just push one domino down and then everything else goes down.
And so what you want to look for in this role is what is that one domino task, that if they can do this correctly, they’re going to be able to do all of those other things correctly. And there’s a lot of different things that you can think about, but one of the things that you can do is within Zapier. You can create a zap and you can make a problem with it. And then they have to figure out how to undo that problem and explain their thinking process. And so that tests for a lot of things. That’s a great domino task, because number one, they may have never used Zapier, ever. And so they’re going to have to figure it out. And so it’s a great way to test out are they able to jump in and figure new software out?
Number two, it’s very if-then thinking. So they have to kind of see the big picture, but then they also have to be detail oriented. And you’re also going to be able to test for how they went about the project. When they explain their thinking, if you have them fix it and then also explain your thinking, you get to see did they go about this in the worst way possible? You know what I mean? And in some cases, even if the result is not correct, because maybe they’ve never done Zapier before or whatever, the way that they think about solving problems like that is great and is in line with the way you would want someone to solve for that, then that’s super helpful.
Another example is if one of their tasks is going to be to assign things like with ClickUp or with Asana or whatever, you can give them some of your meeting notes and just be like, “Hey, here’s the meeting notes. Here’s the people on the team. Can you assign this? And have them map out a thing. They have to figure out ClickUp on their own. They have to figure out if-then thinking, because you can create a scenario where some things might be task dependent. Maybe you don’t want someone to write the copy for the Instagram post unless the graphic is created. And so then they would have to figure out how to make that happen within ClickUp. It could be something like that. What you need to do is start with that role description, list out all the specific things they’re going to be doing, and figure out the best way that you can go about replicating that, so you can figure out what they’re doing.
And then the second thing is, when you’re creating directions for the test project, how are you going to communicate those directions? If you are someone who’s always just making Looms for your team, or maybe you hop on Zoom and tell them how to do something, then they need to be able to follow directions via video. However, if you’re someone that is more written, like if you typically will write a list, give it in Slack or ClickUp or whatever it is, if you communicate better that way, and you want to work with someone who can interpret that, then create it written.
And then the third thing is, when you’re assigning a test project, obviously make sure to give it a due date. And you can also have them track their time to see how long it takes them to complete it, because this also gives you insight into their competency. Does it take them 13 hours to do something.
And the last piece is, with your test project, you want to make sure that part of the project includes them explaining why they are thinking that. Why did they do it that way? And that’s also an opportunity for you to follow up with them and be like, “Oh, I saw that you did, what about, to like, can you tell me more about why you did this in step two”, or whatever it is.
But, oh, what is it? Allison says, “I got pitched by a girl who wanted to join our team. I sent her video reply on Loom saying, ‘Thanks. I’ll keep your info. We aren’t hiring.’ And then she sent me back a Loom video, told me she had never used it before, but wanted to respond back the same way. Yeah. I was super impressed. I ended up hiring her a month later and now she’s going full time with me.” Domino task in disguise. Yeah. It’s so true.
And you’ll find, from these kind of ops assistant, like general assistant job postings, that applicant pool, you’re likely to come back to later. If you have another position that you need later on, that is also somewhat a position that’s kind of like a generalist position, you can go to that same applicant pool and go to your number two choice and say, “Hey, I just wanted to reconnect. We have another opening.” We’ve done that a lot of times.
Rebecca says, “Oh, this just happened. I just found a member who came through at an old price, find out what landing page they found, through what links, and fix the funnel to make sure it doesn’t happen again.”
And so what you want to make sure that you’re doing is that you just want to make sure to protect yourself and like whatever you’re giving them, it’s not your real… You don’t want three people you’re giving a test project to, to be in your real Active Campaign. You know what I mean? You might have to set up a dummy account. There’s different things that you can do. I know with ClickUp specifically, there’s ways to just invite one person to one thing or whatever. So you just want to make sure to cover yourself in that way.
And then the other thing that I wanted to bring up too, is that one of the things that I’m really conscious of is I don’t want anyone to do free labor. So if it’s a test project that requires a substantial amount of time, you can definitely pay them. And you can have them sign different legal templates or contracts up front, or you can say, “Hey, for this test project, you’re going to be paid for $200, or whatever it is, for your time and blah, blah, blah.” To me, I just feel like it kind of creates that… Because you don’t want… People get tired of doing spec work, and they have to do all this stuff for free and then show it to you. I don’t know. To me, I don’t think that’s right. And I feel like it sets up a good relationship from the get-go with the person, because it’s like, “Hey, I treat this, you know, I treat this seriously.”
And the $200 was just an example. It doesn’t have to be $200, but whatever it is. I remember when we hired our internal Facebook ads manager, the test project was more than $200. And it was really detailed, because we couldn’t just ask them, “Are you great at Facebook ads?” Because everyone’s like, “Yeah, I’m great at ads.” So yeah. Allison says, “Do you ever do these kinds of test projects internally?” No, I’ve never given a formal test project, but you can have them try something. You know what I mean? You can assign them a task and say, “Hey, can you try like this task for this next week?”, and just see how it goes. So if they’re already working for you, you already have the ability to test them out on different things.
But I would recommend the 30 Day Hiring Process to dig in more with this, because it’s going to have some more details. And then also, our training this month, our leadership training, is called the 90 Day Employee Onboarding Plan. And so I’m going to be giving you some templates, some agendas, things like that, that you can just copy and paste inside of your Google area or whatever. But it’s going to be really helpful, because not only do we want to make sure that we’re filtering out people on the front end. But once we hire them, we want to set them up for success, and to create expectations for them so that they feel supported and that we’re doing our best to really coach somewhere they need to be.
Are you ready to scale your online course business, so you can impact the lives of more people and create real change in the world? Join us inside our signature program, Scale with Success®, where you’ll get the content, coaching and community you need to successfully implement our proven process to help you scale, so you can start reaping the rewards of running a highly profitable online course business. Scale with Success® is a multi-year group coaching experience built for online course creators, who are ready to scale their business to and through $1 million with certainty, as a result of having the right support at the right time. What are you waiting for? Click over to scalewithsuccess.com and apply now.
Today’s episode is brought to you by Scale With Success® Accelerator — an online course designed to help you generate launch-sized revenue without lanching. If you want to learn MORE about our proven method for success, click here to watch my free masterclass. See you in there!