Karie Price:
Hey there, you’re listening to Scale with Success®: The Podcast Built for Course Creators™. And in today’s episode, we’re giving you an inside look at what it means to be a successful scaler. In this interview with our Stage II Scale with Success® client, Abbi Perets. In this open and honest interview, Abbi shares what it took to break through a six-figure revenue plateau, and even where she got stuck when building up her team. You’ll also hear what it’s like to work through these types of challenges with the help of our coaching team, and how being in community with other course creators who are on the same journey allowed Abbi to show up better for herself and therefore her business. So, if you’re looking for inspiration of what’s possible for you and an inside peek at what the experience is like inside Scale with Success®, then keep listening because you’re going to get all of that in this interview with Abbi. So stay tuned.
Caitlin Bacher:
My name is Caitlin Bacher, founder and CEO of Scale with Success®, and I’m on a mission to help course creators all over the world grow their business in a way that is profitable and scalable. Together with my co-host and director of marketing, Karie Price, we are sharing revealing conversations about what it really takes to scale an online course business to millions of dollars per year. Join us here to discover the tough decisions we’ve had to make, the biggest failures we’ve had to bounce back from, and the learnings that emerged every step of the way. We are so grateful that we have the chance to share it all with you right here on Scale with Success®. The Podcast Built for Course Creators™. Let’s get started.
Caitlin Bacher:
So I am really excited today to introduce one of our amazing clients. Her name is Abbi Perets, and she’s here today to talk about her experience inside of Scale with Success®, and also to really dig into some of the details of her journey and talk about where she’s been, where she’s at now, and where she wants to go. Also, I want to introduce Kim. Kim McCarter is the coach coordinator for our program Scale with Success®, and she is here joining us because she has an even deeper understanding of Abbi’s business than I do. And so, she’s going to make sure that we’re pulling up all of the juicy bits. So thank you, Kim, for being here as well,
Kim McCarter:
Excited to be here with you, guys.
Caitlin Bacher:
So with that, I would love it, Abbi, if we could start out by having you tell us a little bit about your course and why you’re so passionate about serving your students.
Abbi Perets:
Sure. We’ve blocked eight hours for this, right? Because I love-
Caitlin Bacher:
That’s right.
Abbi Perets:
Okay. Kim’s saying no. We did not. When I first created my course, it was the course that I wished I’d had when I’d gotten started in freelance writing, gosh, 22 years ago. So, I’ve worked as a freelance writer for all that time. And when I started, I truly knew nothing about what that meant and how I would get people to pay me. So I created Writing for Money to give other women, mostly moms, what I wish I’d had when I got started.
Abbi Perets:
And I’m crazy passionate about helping moms understand that there does not need… you don’t need to make a choice between kids and career. You get to have both and you get to define what having both means for you. For me, what’s so exciting is working with women who send me emails and messages and whatevers that say things like, because I’m earning my own money now I could walk away from an abusive marriage or because I’m earning my own money now, I can say yes to my kid when he wants to, I don’t know, learn how to skateboard. I can do these things that I didn’t think were possible. I can stand up for myself, and it spills over to all these different areas of their lives when they’re making their own money, when they’re in control of their own time and their lives, and when they’re not beholden to a boss or a toxic workplace or under the thumb of a spouse who might not be as forthcoming with the money.
Abbi Perets:
And just even when everything is awesome in your marriage, I mean, like let’s not get the wrong idea. I am passionately in love with my husband and have been for 25 years. And it still is really awesome when I can say things like, “Yes, I’ve booked these business class tickets on the plane because a long plane flight in coach is not what I want right now.” Yeah, it’s kind of cool.
Caitlin Bacher:
Yeah. First of all, this is a side note, but how did you get into… Were you previously a writer or how did you kind of come… How did this course come about?
Abbi Perets:
Yeah. So, when I had my first baby, I was 23 years old. I got married when I was 20, and I had a job working as a junior copywriter. And when I had the baby, I was like, “Well, I don’t want to work in an office anymore. That sounds awful. I want to be home with my baby. And also, I don’t want to wear pants with buttons on them. And so I looked for a job that would allow me to be at home and not wear pants with buttons on them. And freelance writing seemed like a really good fit, except that I had no idea what that meant and how I would get people to pay me money to do something. So I had to figure it all out by myself. And I did. And again, back in the dark ages, 1999, before the Internet was a big thing and we didn’t have Google, we had Alta Vista. These were the good old days.
Abbi Perets:
And I read everything that I could, books from the library, on how to be a freelance writer and built up a business and worked my way to earning a consistent $3,000, $4,000 a month while birthing and rearing five children, including two who have some special needs. So, this was a way for me to be flexible with my time to get the income that my family needed. We relied on it along with my husband’s income and to be present for my kids in the way that I needed to be. So yeah, when I thought about making a course, this was the thing that I knew really well, how to do.
Caitlin Bacher:
So, did you have, prior to creating your online course, did you have any apprehensions to creating your online course to kind of getting it out there into the Internet webs?
Abbi Perets:
That’s a great question. I’m a person who tends to do things and then think them through later. So for example, when I was 18, I moved from the United States to Israel by myself, mostly because my dad told me I couldn’t and I was like, “I’m 18. I can do whatever I want.” So smart thinking it through has never been my strong point. So when I decided it was time to create a course, I had done… In my freelance writing career, I had done a lot of work for corporate clients who needed online trainings, like they needed to certify employees. So for example, Caitlin you’re in California, in California, employers of companies over a certain number of employees have to certify employees on sexual harassment training every year. And a lot of that’s done via online courses, so I created a lot of that content for corporate clients.
Abbi Perets:
So I had some experience in this whole online education world, and I really accidentally fell into the concept of online courses. I guess I probably had a little bit of apprehension about putting this thing out in the world and would people actually want to buy it. But I also, I don’t know, I suffer the delusion that I’m the most fascinating person in the world. And of course people would want to learn from me and, of course, they would want to listen to me talk about these things all day long because I am just so interesting. So there’s a little bit of that. And a lot of, “I’m just going to do this and figure out the bits and pieces later.”
Caitlin Bacher:
Yeah. I love that. I also am a learner by doing so I do like to have the plan, but even I can’t spend too much time on the plan because I prefer to get started and then kind of adjust as needed. Okay. So let’s talk a little bit about what was going on in your business and life before you decided to enroll in Scale with Success®?
Abbi Perets:
Yeah. I had gotten to a point where my business had grown pretty significantly. Well, I had taken a break in my business. I had been working as a freelance writer up until 2013. And at that point, my five kids were all a little bit older and I had full days to myself and things were pretty cool. And then my middle son, who’s developmentally disabled, was diagnosed with cancer and that sucked and it was horrible, and I stopped working completely for a couple of years. And when I came back to work, I didn’t have as much patience for client work as I had before. And I also fell into like teaching other moms of kids with cancer how they could do some freelancing and bring in some income during this wildly unpredictable time in their lives. So I started this whole successful freelance mom thing really without a clue, built a course, and got some students into it.
Abbi Perets:
In that first year, I stopped working with freelance writing clients and just worked on the course and brought in around $70,000. And then, I eased back into also writing for clients, but I really niched down on the service that I was offering to clients and built out the course business. So the first year I did 70 grand, the second year I did like 140 grand. And the third year I did 320 and I was like, “This is kind of cool. I feel like this is a thing. I feel like this is working.” And with that, I knew that to continue scaling past a certain point, I needed help. It’s really true that what gets you to that first hundred thousand and maybe even like 150, 200, it’s not going to get you much further than that. You can chew some by grit and sheer force of will, but beyond that, you really need some decent systems in place.
Abbi Perets:
I brought in a VA and I brought in somebody to kind of help me manage my community, but I didn’t know exactly what to tell them to do and how to let go of all the pieces that I was doing. And I felt like, I have something awesome here. I could be serving more people if more people knew about me, and I don’t know how to make that happen by myself. And I don’t know what I need in place to free myself up, to concentrate. I knew I needed help. I didn’t know exactly what that looked like, but I knew I wasn’t going to be able to get much further than where I was on my own.
Caitlin Bacher:
Kim, when you think back to when Abbi first joined us and your conversations with her, did that level of frustration come through where it’s like, I can relate to this, Abbi. I’m a motivated person. I can get from point A to point B by putting in some hard work, and I can feel good about that. And so when I’m putting in the hard work and I don’t see a result, I’m like, “What the heck is going on here?”
Kim McCarter:
Yes. So, one thing I think we, the coaches and I, love about having Abbi in the program is that she gives herself the grace to be vulnerable with us and share what challenges are coming up. She’s always going to ask a question, and she’s always going to make sure that she’s also encouraging others to ask their questions as well. And one of the things that she worked on and has been working on over the last couple of months is the growth of the team, how to delegate, and how to make use of the desires that she really wanted because she wanted the time freedom. And then she got it and she was like, “Well, what am I supposed to do now? I’m not doing anything. Why am I not doing anything?” All of those beliefs came up and I was like, “Wait, this is what you asked for.”
Kim McCarter:
So it was a huge adjustment for her, but she’s worked through it really, really well. Even recently with matter of fact, I think that’s Abbi’s story to tell about some of the challenges that came up with the new time management system and being able to delegate to the team. So Abbi, I think that would be a great way to share. Once you had your evergreen funnel up and running and you were making those core sales, but you saw other areas you wanted to strengthen in the team, what was that challenge like for you?
Abbi Perets:
Yeah, it was really hard. I was in Scale and I had the support, and I came to a call and I literally said to the… I said to Kim like, “I don’t know what I’m supposed to be working on. When I sit down at my desk, what am I supposed to be doing?” And she said, “Well, first of all, you’re supposed to take a little time away from your desk, girl.”
Abbi Perets:
But then she said, “After that, there were so many amazing trainings inside of Scale.” And she helped me figure out where I needed to start, what I needed to be watching, and then what to focus on so that I could say to my business manager, “All right, you know what? We need a team member to fill in this gap. We need someone to do this.” I had a VA who we were… We were paying a lot of money for some low-level tasks and that was something that Kim really helped me identify and see… Part of the reason I was feeling stressed is there was a lot of money going out for stuff that didn’t need to be costing me that much money, so she helped me really refine those hiring practices really to get clear on what are the tasks that need to be done.
Abbi Perets:
She really pushed me to detail that out, and there’s a part of me like, “These past few months have been some of the scariest in my life and I’ve had a kid with cancer. This was really scary stuff.” I was like, I don’t even want to sit at my desk because then I have to think about grownup things and that’s not fun. I mean, I’m 45 and it terrified me. Make a list of all the things that need to happen to keep this business running? I prefer to just turn on my computer and make a pretty post in Canva. That would be easy. I could do that. And Kim was really the person who pushed me and said, “No, stop doing that. Stop wasting your time on things that you shouldn’t be doing and stop overpaying somebody to do these things. You don’t need to pay $40 an hour for somebody to let people into your Facebook group. That is a low-level task, make a list of those things that you’re overpaying for and get the right person doing those things, and then really figure out who do you need on your team.”
Abbi Perets:
I went through stuff with some of my team members who were suddenly very unhappy about the expectations, and it really helped me realize that I was not being clear in what are my expectations for them. What am I bringing them on to do? My business manager and I have been working very hard to define those roles more clearly. And that’s something, again, I wouldn’t have the first… I’ve never had a job in corporate. I’ve never done that, so I don’t have the first idea about any of these job titles and descriptions. I don’t know any of this stuff on my own. And then, the trainings inside Scale have really been instrumental in just how to think about an organizational chart and how to think about structure and how to think about running effective meetings.
Abbi Perets:
Because my approach to meetings was let’s not have them at all or we’ll call it a meeting, but it’s really just, how’s it going? What you doing? Oh my God, let me tell you what my kids did yesterday. It was so cool. That’s not a meeting and that’s not productive and that’s not a good use of my time. And having literally, I mean, it sounds kind of silly, right? Who needs a training on how to run a meeting? Well, I do. So, yeah, that’s been really helpful.
Caitlin Bacher:
I love that. And that’s one of the things… So, Abbi is… Well, she started off in our Stage I Program of Scale with Success®. And then, she upgraded into Stage II, which is really for course creators that are starting to build out their team, and when I first started my business, I didn’t have corporate experience. So I came from… I’d worked in the cosmetics industry and retail for a while. That was as close as I came to corporate, right? Like working for Macy’s or Nordstrom. And then I was, for the bulk of my career before entrepreneurship, it was teaching. And so, I had no concept of how frequently should you communicate with your team? What does the structure of your team look like?
Caitlin Bacher:
And all of those things much like you started your journey and had to learn things those super slow, hard way. I also had to learn things the super slow hard way, and it’s so fun to be able to create trainings like the Accountability Builder, where you can learn how to structure your team or like the 30-Day Hiring Process where we walk you through, here’s exactly what you need to do to get someone to pick the best candidate in 30 days or the 90-day onboarding process. All of these different things that just like you were saying, I wish I had those when I was beginning to scale my business because it would have just saved me so much heartache.
Caitlin Bacher:
And when I think about where my business could be at this point, if I had a program like this, that I had enrolled in back then, holy bajoli, I would be way further ahead, but I am grateful for what I have and I keep focused and keep going. But one thing that I do want to ask you, Abbi, is you mentioned that you were feeling stuck and that all of the things that had brought you results previously in order to build your $200K, $300K per year business, they were no longer working to get you to where you wanted to go. And there’s a lot of different coaching programs out there. And I’m just wondering what made you choose Scale with Success®? What made us a really good fit for you?
Abbi Perets:
So, it was a couple of things. I spoke to a student who had been through the program, Sarah Noked, who, like me, lives in Israel. And I have regular calls with her and she spoke extremely highly of the program. And there are a lot of people who, before they join a program or right after they join, they’re like, “Yes, this is the greatest thing ever.” And then like eight months down, they’re like, “Yeah, it’s okay.” But she was still, as she was approaching that 12-month mark, she was still like, “No, this was awesome. This was amazing. This was what I needed. You should do this.” There was also, okay and this will sound a little weird, I’ve had a problem wherein the past, when I’ve done a program with somebody who I really, really like. I admire this person and they put them on a pedestal, and then I do a program with them, and I’m like, “Oh, well, she’s totally human and flawed, and now I’m seeing all the flaws up close.”
Abbi Perets:
Here’s the thing, Caitlin, I didn’t know anything about you, so I didn’t have a pedestal to put you on it. And I mean that in the best possible way. I wasn’t coming in from this place of hero worship, I wasn’t coming in from this place of, well, I really need Caitlin’s eyes on my stuff. And that’s the only way I’m going to know if I’m doing this correctly. This is horrible to say, but I had never heard of Kim McCarter before. And now, I’m like, “The head, the president of the Kim McCarter fan club. So yeah, I mean, like I came into this space almost with no expectations. I knew that my friend and business colleague who I trusted and who has proven results, I knew that she had gotten results. And this was the program that had helped her.
Abbi Perets:
But I came in as kind of a blank slate. I knew about your Facebook course. I’d seen you do some Facebook lives in the past, but I haven’t ever been through one of your programs before, and so I didn’t feel like, “Oh, I really need to see Caitlin’s face every day. I did not know quite how much support there was in the program until I got on the initial call to talk about it. And one of the big things for me, as somebody who does live outside the United States, I always ask, “What times are the calls? Am I even going to be able to make them? And so hearing that there were calls at multiple times and that there are times that I can make, that was important to me. There have been some programs that I’ve literally turned down because I know I’m not going to be able to make a single live call without sacrificing my health. And I really love my sleep so I’m not going to do that. And that makes a difference.
Abbi Perets:
For me, I need sometimes that realtime feedback. This seemed to be… I liked the price point because I didn’t want to hang out with people who were asking dumb questions. Can we say that? I didn’t want to be around people who didn’t understand what’s a funnel. I wanted to be around people who were doing the work, who were committed to showing up, and I knew that being in community with those kinds of people were going to push me to do more and be more and show up better.
Kim McCarter:
Abbi, one of the things you mentioned is that you came into the program with zero expectations. So how do you think that actually allowed you to progress through the program? And do you think because you had zero expectations and you didn’t have Caitlin like this hierarchy pedestal for Caitlin, as the ultimate course creator, do you think that actually helped you move through the program better and actually see the success that you’re seeing from the program?
Abbi Perets:
You know, I think that might’ve had something to do with it. I know that I was very conscious of when I got in, when I, like, “Open the portal.” And like, “Here’s all my lessons.” And I’ve got to go through them in order and there’s course compliance enabled, so I’ve got to check things off before I can move on, so I know that that can be, I do the same thing in my own program. And I know that it’s extremely frustrating sometimes for my students. And I also know the reason I enabled it is because everyone who came into my program would go directly to how to get clients. And I’m like, there’s a reason that’s module four. You’re not ready for that yet; you need to do one, two and three first. So knowing that and coming in and saying, “All right, there’s a process that’s been built here and it’s been built for a reason. And I’m going to go ahead and trust the process. And I’m going to do these steps in the order that I’m supposed to do them in even if I think maybe I know better.”
Abbi Perets:
Well, if I really knew better than I would already be making a million dollars, and I wouldn’t have needed this program. I paid a lot of money for this, and I’m going to step into it, I’m going to follow it. And I do think that having that zero expectations, I certainly didn’t expect that I would enroll in the program and that magic would happen. And like confetti would sprinkle and I would suddenly have more sales. I knew that I had to do the work, and I did come in thinking, “Oh, I’m the smartest person in the world. So, this will only take me a week to do Phase 1.” And it took me, I don’t know, five weeks. I’m okay with that.
Abbi Perets:
I think that leaning into the process helped me a lot because I do see people who come in and who spend more time getting stuck and asking questions that aren’t really questions, that are like, “Could I not do it this way and do it the way I would like to and still get results? And I know how frustrating that is for me in my own program with my own students. So I was really determined to not be that person.
Kim McCarter:
But you know what? You’ve mentioned not expecting confetti moments, but you have had some confetti moments since you’ve been in Scale with Success. What has been your favorite confetti moments so far?
Abbi Perets:
You know, it would be hard to pick one thing. I had a realization yesterday when I was saying like, “Right now, I’m at this place where I am feeling a tiny bit stuck at the income level I’m at now.” But then I also took a step back and I’m like, “Well, right, well, right now I’m pulling in $30K a month consistently. And also not working very many hours. I’m working like an hour or two a week. It’s ridiculous.” So I was like, “Maybe if I… I mean, I’m on vacation right now. So I’m going to [crosstalk 00:23:26] a little bit of Slack.
Caitlin Bacher:
Okay. Hold, hold, hold up.
Caitlin Bacher:
Let me get this straight. All right.
Kim McCarter:
Yes. She is at 30K a month working two hours a week.
Caitlin Bacher:
Okay.
Kim McCarter:
I was [crosstalk 00:23:35] to say.
Caitlin Bacher:
Wanted to be clear.
Abbi Perets:
Yeah. I feel… I’m on vacation right now. So I’m truly. I’m checking in Slack on my phone. I’m like, Sure. Today… okay, this is awful. This is so terrible. Today. I was at Copley Place in Boston with my friend and she was at the Christian Louboutin store buying shoes. And I did not actually buy shoes there cause I’m not really a shoe person. I’m sorry, Kim. I’m not a shoe person. And so I know Kim’s like, “What are you talking about?” I’ll send you a picture of the shoes, but I’m like, literally the only work I did was I asked my business manager, “Hey, can you track down the addresses of our mastermind students because I want to send them some stuff?”
Abbi Perets:
And that was my work for the day. I have the calls that I am responsible for and that I run. And I check Slack to make sure there are no urgent questions that only I can answer, but because I’m no longer the person who holds all the information in the business, there are very few questions that only I can answer. Yeah, occasionally there might be something and then we can create a process around, well, how do we make sure that next time Abbi is not the only person who knows the answer to this question, but it’s really true. Like I’m on vacation, I’m doing very little, and we’re still going to bring in around that $30K this month. So, that is kind of cool. Remember, I mean, you guys know this, that your listeners might not all realize that that $30K is not all profit, right. That’s revenue. It’s still pretty good.
Abbi Perets:
And learning to accept that and internalize that has been something that Kim has really… Kim got annoyed with me. There was one week when I was like, “Yeah, I had this… I launched the Evergreen Funnel to my existing list. And I, I only brought in 82 students, and she was like “Wrong, wrong. That’s not how we say that.” So yeah, there’ve been some amazing moments. I created a high-ticket program because I had the brain freedom to create a high-ticket program. So I enrolled five women into a $10,000 program above and beyond my $1297 program. And then, when I discovered I was coming to America for a vacation, I figured I’ll offer a VIP experience to a student. I had a student, a student who I love, who I adore, who I enjoy spending time with and think of it as fun, who paid six grand to come and hang out with me for two days. And we made a Target run together. If that’s not joy, what is?
Caitlin Bacher:
I love that. And you’re so right. I feel like a lot of people don’t get the leverage that’s possible out of that online course. And being able to automate the sales and marketing process, being able to automate the delivery process of your course so that your students are being served inside of the community with or without you. And being able to do that in just a few hours a week, which I know it didn’t… Obviously, you were working a lot before that – to get it up and running. But once that’s happening, it really frees up your time to think about what is that next level offer that we’re thinking of. And that’s one of my favorite things to really dig in and work on with our scalers is helping them, whether it’s through the product vision map training or by submitting questions for the Hot Topics call. I love just being able to support you in really fleshing out those ideas.
Caitlin Bacher:
You have not submitted a question on that for the Hot Topics. You should totally submit a question because I would love to get into like being able to layer that on top of that, since you have your online course, like up, running, profitable and that’s providing really that security foundation, time, freedom for you. Now, it’s like the fun time to really get creative. And that’s the point where I was, I remember after my, my online course was up and running and I was like, man, I have so much time. Like this is, I’m making a million dollars a year. I have so much time right? And then I was like, “Okay, now I’m ready to create that next level offer.” But if I hadn’t been really focused on fully automating the course and leveraging it to its full potential, then I wouldn’t have been able to go into that next step.
Abbi Perets:
Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And, and I was very cautious about that because one of the things that you say in one of the very first trainings in the program is you don’t… Everybody comes in and says, well, I want to scale six programs at once. And you say, you’ve got to have one where you’re completely removed from the program before you move on to the next. And so, while I did have multiple programs, when I came into the program, when I came into Scale, I decided I’m not working on any of that other stuff. It’s Writing for Money. That’s the core program. So it’s Writing for Money and the continuity program for that. And that’s what I’m focused on here.
Abbi Perets:
And it’s really only been in the last two or three months then I’m like, “Okay, I think I did.” It’s weird. You know, it’s like when your kid learns to walk and you’re like, “Okay, I did all that work.” And now you can walk by yourself, like, what do I do now? So there is that sense of am I now allowed to start working on the next step? And it’s weird. I mean, it’s an adjustment. So, yeah.
Caitlin Bacher:
I mean, obviously, you’re on vacation. You have time to host these amazing VIP days that include going to Target, which I am in full support of. And you’re able to do it by spending just a few hours a week on your business. What do you think has been the most helpful or impactful part of our Scale with Success® program for you?
Abbi Perets:
Wow. I really do believe that my weekly dose of Kim McCarter is critical. I think she’s just an amazing resource. I think the space that she holds for us and the way she shows up with her whole heart, week after week, is amazing. I feel guilty if I’m ever skipping a call and I know I’m allowed to. I know if I don’t need to be there, it’s allowed, but I feel like, I guarantee there’s going to be some gold there, and I should try to be there for it to catch the gold. Truly an amazing resource. I think that also, though being around other scalers, some of the mastermind pods are difficult for me because of time zones, but when I am able to be there and just to hang out with peers and have those conversations is amazing, astounding. Once you get reassurance, “Oh, this doesn’t just happen to me.”
Abbi Perets:
Other people have these same feelings and I know that intellectually, but getting that proof of it is important. Honestly, I think it’s all so important. I think the Facebook community, being able to get coaching, even what I just like word vomit out there, I’m like, “Whoa.” And then a coach will come back and say, “What is your actual question?” And I’m like, “Yes. Okay. That would be good if I could pull that out from this. Being able to go and ask my questions in real time when I need to is being able to be around other people who are doing the work and who are coming up against the same rough spots and seeing proof that just because there’s a mountain in front of us, doesn’t mean there’s not a way to climb over it. And I bet if we all sit down together and talk it through, we can figure out how we’re going to get over this.
Caitlin Bacher:
I love that. And you know, you’ve been in the program for a while now, but I really look forward to seeing… I just can’t imagine where are you going to be a year from now? The progress has just been so insane. My own mind can’t fathom. What will it be like if we sit down again at 12 months from now, like what are the wins you’re going to be sharing? What are the big aha moments you’re going to be able to share and say, you know what, okay, I can not believe I actually said that or believed that or whatever. I have changed so much.
Caitlin Bacher:
And I really thank you so much Abbi, for just showing up and being completely transparent. One of the things that we love about you is that you are just completely honest and forthright about whatever it is that’s going on in that moment. And so I really appreciate you and your time today. And also thank you so much to Kim for being here to help us dive a little bit deeper with Abbi. Before we go, Abbi, where can people learn more about you? Where should they go? Where’s the best place to send them?
Abbi Perets:
Absolutely. I am online at successfulfreelancemom.com and I’m on Instagram as @abbiperets.
Caitlin Bacher:
Awesome. Well thank you so much. And we’d love to hear what you thought of this episode and what your biggest takeaway was. So if you are listening, make sure to send us a DM on Instagram and let us know what your biggest takeaway was. All right. Thanks, guys. Talk soon.
Caitlin Bacher:
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