Caitlin Bacher:
Hey, there. You’re listening to Scale with Success®, The Podcast Built for Course Creators™. And in today’s episode, we’re talking about a major challenge you may be experiencing in your online course business, building and leading a profitable team without micromanaging. If you are already generating $200,000 a year or $15,000 a month, but your revenue is stuck and you’re working harder than ever despite having a team to support you, that could be an indicator that you have a bigger problem going on in your business. Today, we’re diving deeper into why this might be happening in your business right now, and the actions you can take to overcome this challenge so you can build a team that increases your profitability. So, if you feel like you are struggling with building and leading a profitable team without micromanaging, then keep listening because we have a lot to talk about. So, stay tuned.
Caitlin Bacher:
My name is Caitlin Bacher, a founder and CEO of Scale with Success® and I’m on a mission to help course creators all over the world, grow their business in a way that is profitable and scalable. Together with my co-host and director of marketing, Karie Price, we’re sharing revealing conversations about what it really takes to scale an online course business to millions of dollars per year. Join us here to discover the tough decisions we’ve had to make, the biggest failures we’ve had to bounce back from, and the learnings that emerged every step of the way. We are so grateful that we have the chance to share it all with you right here on Scale with Success®, the podcast built for course creators. Let’s get started.
Caitlin Bacher:
Today, we are talking about what it really takes to build a lean profitable team without micromanaging. So, here’s how to know if the way you’re currently building and leading your team is standing in the way of scaling your online course business. Number one, you are the bottleneck, and you’re always putting out fires. Now, I don’t know about you, but the whole reason why I hired a team is so that I could get more done, so I could focus on those higher-level tasks that as a CEO, I need to be focused on. And yet, sometimes there have been moments where I have found myself to actually be the bottleneck and people are waiting on me to make a decision so that they can then move forward. And I can’t make that decision, because I’m over here putting out this fire, or I’m running over here to help deal with this emergency.
Karie Price:
Yeah. And this is particularly frustrating for everyone who goes through this because everyone will go through this on the way to getting a team that really functions well. And it’s frustrating because we’re hiring people that it’s supposed to make our jobs easier and free us up for more time, and if we’re constantly the one that everyone’s waiting on and then like we’re holding everything up, it makes you wonder if it’s just faster and easier to do it myself.
Caitlin Bacher:
Yes. And I know that we have a small amount of listeners, maybe it’s a large amount of listeners out there right now who are like, “Yep. A lot of times I just step in and I end up doing it myself because I know in the moment, it’ll be faster.” But the reality is it’s not, it might be solving that initial problem in the moment, but it’s not really setting you up for long-term success. The other symptom of having a team that is really preventing you from increasing your revenue is that your team is too reliant on you to make decisions for them.
Karie Price:
Yeah. And this one comes with a learning curve for you as the CEO, right? It comes from learning to trust and letting things go. As entrepreneurs, especially when we’re getting started and being a solopreneur, we’re used to doing everything ourselves and having the control of that. And so learning how… We’re going to talk about this today, but learning how to set your team up so they don’t wait for you for those decisions is going to be key.
Caitlin Bacher:
Yes, absolutely. And the third thing is that you might not know who you need to hire next. Now, this is a question that I hear all the time, especially from our clients that are already in that multiple six-figure range, and they have an existing team, even if it’s just maybe one or two contractors, but they’re really looking to build that team and they have no clue who to hire next. And a lot of times, their instincts are actually not the way to go. And the reason why is because sometimes we want to solve for that for a temporary problem. So, we’re having a specific struggle and we just want the pain to go away, and so we say, “You know what? This is going to be my next hire. I’m going to hire someone that…” But we’re not thinking of that long-term strategy.
Caitlin Bacher:
And so, one of my favorite things to do is to really go in and show the hiring phases of this is the exact position you need to start with, then you’re going to go to this one, then you come over here, you track this to make sure this is right, then you go to the next level. I don’t want to say it’s formulaic, but there is a definite framework that online course creators specifically need to be following when it comes to building up their team in a way that’s profitable.
Karie Price:
Yeah, because this is tricky, it’s really easy to make the wrong decision. We’re going to talk a little bit more about that when you are looking at those immediate needs and immediate pains, and a lot of people will say, “Oh, what would be the thing you want to get off your plate first?” And that’s how they might make a decision, but that doesn’t set you up for the long-term success, for the type of team that you need to really help you scale your course. So, we’re going to get into some good tips about that now. But Caitlin, let’s talk about what common mistakes people are making when they start to experience these problems in building their team?
Caitlin Bacher:
Okay. So, one of the mistakes that I see happen a lot is that people build a team faster than they know how to manage one. And because of that, they always feel like they’re cleaning up after someone’s mess. Now, you can have the best team in the world, but if you do not know how to manage people and how to create a culture of personal responsibility, then you are going to be working harder with a team than you were without a team.
Karie Price:
And just recognize that managing people requires a different skill set than what you’re probably doing now. Your zone of genius, what it is that you are teaching your students, the business that you’re building has a particular skill set, and managing people has a very different skill set so that you can set them up and support them in a way that also frees you up, the reason you’re hiring a team, right? And so, yeah, you want to do it in a way that gives you confidence in yourself as a leader and confidence in your team.
Caitlin Bacher:
And that your team feels confident in you as a leader.
Karie Price:
Yes. 100%, because it’s not about micromanaging them either, right? We talk about that a lot. You want to build a really profitable team. You want them to have that personal responsibility and the ability to make their own decisions, and that does not mean you’re micromanaging them.
Caitlin Bacher:
Yeah. And I see people go two ways with this, either they get really in the weeds, hyper-delegation mode, super micromanaging, telling them what to do every single step of the way, or they just are like the total hands-off approach. They hire an OBM or someone else and just say, “Go manage the team.” I’ve done both of them. I’ve been on both ends of the spectrum, and it’s normal to kind of vacillate between those two, but neither one is healthy. And it’s really important that people know that. A lot of times, people are hesitant about management because they have the wrong idea of what that looks like. And they’re thinking that it’s more work for you because you’re hovering over, telling someone what to do, quality-checking it, making sure they did it right, telling them what to do next and what.
Caitlin Bacher:
In our company, and what we teach our clients to do is we teach people how to build projects, make decisions, all of that, so that you are not the one hovering over them every step of the way. The second mistake that I see people make a lot of times is hiring in the wrong order. So, I alluded to this a little bit earlier on, and I know that the temptation is to throw money at a problem and hope it goes away, but that temporary strategy will only lead to temporary results.
Karie Price:
But here’s the thing. This is a really common mistake that people make. And if you think about it, it makes sense. You’re tired of doing everything yourself. You know you have to stop doing something, right? And so, you’re trying to figure out how do I best fill all these tasks that I’m doing? And it’s no wonder, you’re probably feeling like you’re just trying to keep your head above water, so you’re feeling, I won’t say panic, but you’re starting to feel the stress and pressure of needing to find the right people. But you’re probably also a little afraid of letting some things go, and so you might choose the roles to hire and that feel like the easiest things for you to delegate, but that’s not necessarily going to set you up for success.
Caitlin Bacher:
Or you might hire that someone who is like a contractor or like specialist who is super niche, where even though they may be super talented at what they do, that particular position is not going to be the position that’s really going to move your company forward. I remember there was around the year of business where I was making around $200K a year. My team was like… It was close to the size of the team that I have now, which is a multi-million dollar company. And the reason was that I didn’t have a strategy in place for hiring. I had all of these weird niche roles and the people by the way were amazing and awesome, like every single person, super talented, but I just had things that didn’t make sense. Like, I had a Pinterest strategist, I had a video editor, I had all of these specialists, but there was no cohesion.
Caitlin Bacher:
And it was just like, “Oh, I have this problem. Okay, I’ll hire a contractor for this, a contract for this, for this,” and I for sure did not have that long-term vision of like, “What structure does the company require in order to get where I want to go?” And I remember one of the things that I did in order to get to my first million-dollar year is I let go of a whole bunch of contractors because while they were super talented, they weren’t driving my company towards the goal. They weren’t producing the outcomes that I needed in order to move forward.
Karie Price:
Yeah. And if you keep adding people to your team based on what feels the most pressing, just like you shared Caitlin, what happens, you end up with this bloated team. You end up with a lot of people, probably more people than you need that you’re managing, that require your time, require your help, and that’s why it’s feeling like you’re not getting any of your own time back.
Caitlin Bacher:
The next mistake that I want to make, and again, I totally get why people make this mistake because you are in pain. But what I see a lot of people do is they settle for these, a lot of times overpaid, vastly under-qualified contractors because we feel desperate, right? And we feel like we probably found them by just even posting in a free Facebook group or something saying like, “Hey, does anyone know anyone who can help me?” And then of course, you get like a googillion DMs from various people or whatever. And it’s just like, that’s not the way to go. Again, it’s kind of you’re in that place where you’re just putting out fires, and over time, what happens is you feel constricted by that because you’ve built a team that is kind of jerry-rigged or taped together, it’s not cohesive. They’re not all operating together as part of one machine, it’s all of these different things.
Caitlin Bacher:
And so, you know you need to make some changes, but at the same time, it’s so scary because the business that you built now needs those people to operate. Right? And it can be really scary to be like, “Oh my gosh, what heppened…? Now, I’ve set this up in this weird way that I’m just over-reliant on this one contracted Pinterest strategist,” or whatever and it’s not good.
Karie Price:
Yeah. And it creeps up on you because at first, again, it totally makes sense that you do that. You’re looking for immediate relief and you might be thinking, “But I don’t need a full-time person there. I need part-time help.” And so, the fastest and easiest way to get help is to hire a specialist and a contractor to do that, or a consultant. And then again, over time, now you get to that breaking point, and then like you said, Caitlin, all of a sudden, you’re so reliant on these people and you’re like, “Wait, what’s going to happen if that person’s not here anymore, and I don’t know how we’re going to get that done again, and I don’t want to take it back on.” Right? So, it creeps up on you if you’re not careful.
Caitlin Bacher:
And I also want to make it clear that there’s nothing wrong with hiring a specialist or hiring a contractor. The problem is when your entire team is comprised of these super-niche individualized contractor roles, it’s not going to work. So, the other mistake that I see people make a lot is they get stuck in the weeds and they’re tracking the wrong metrics. This might sound obvious to some people, but I feel like we all need a reminder. Your team is supposed to be growing the business. Your team is supposed to help and facilitate the growth of your company and your business relies on you to see that big picture and to be able to correctly identify which metrics you need to track for yourself and for the team to make sure that things are running smoothly, and to be able to spot problems that are just starting to creep up before they really get out of hand and snowball.
Karie Price:
We love our data around here. We are big proponents of that, but you’re right, Caitlin. It’s about tracking the right data because there’s a lot of things you could track, but if they’re not helping you make good decisions in your business, then you’re just spending time tracking things that don’t help you. So, whenever I look to anyone on our team, I know when we’re looking at, do we need to track a piece of data? It’s like, “Well, what decisions would this help us make?” If it’s not something that would help us in any of our decision-making, it’s not worth the tracking. At least, not right now.
Caitlin Bacher:
I also really want for everyone listening to understand that the data that you track is going to change at every level of success. So, the data that you were tracking on your journey to $15,000 a month is going to be different than the data that you need to track on your journey to $80,000 a month. And it’s funny because literally just before this call, I have some new metrics I’m going to share with you Karie on our next meeting the new marketing metrics that previously, it wasn’t something that we needed to track, but now that we’re moving forward into this new territory, it’s like, “Okay, these are some new things that we need to start measuring.”
Karie Price:
Such a good point, because that is really important because even the data that we’ve been tracking has changed over time, right?
Caitlin Bacher:
Oh, yeah.
Karie Price:
Our scorecard on metrics, very different today than they looked six months ago or a year ago. So, it’s very important as you grow to keep rethinking that.
Caitlin Bacher:
Yeah.
Karie Price:
Okay. So, let’s help our listeners out Caitlin and talk about some of the things that they can do in order to build and lead their profitable team without micromanaging.
Caitlin Bacher:
So, one of the things that I’m really passionate about is creating policies, processes, and systems that help build the culture that you want. So, when we talk about really building that culture of personal responsibility so that people on your team are going to take ownership of their results, it’s not just going to happen because you say, “Oh, you know what? I’m going to choose my company core value of personal responsibility and I’m going to make a nice PDF about it and hand it out to everyone on the team,” and there you go, right? You have to have a structure in place that where the core value is not only shared, it is celebrated, it is measured. It’s enforced. People are held accountable for it. And I think that’s a really important distinction where it’s important for you as a leader, especially in that multiple six-figure range that you’re really thinking about what is the company culture that I want my company to be known for, right?
Caitlin Bacher:
And that is going to be different than perhaps your personal set of core values or anything like that. But having that culture of personal responsibility specifically, I have found to be so important and such a huge contributor to the success of our own company and the relationships that we all have with each other within our company.
Karie Price:
Yeah. And I think a really important thing that you just share Caitlin is about, it’s not just stating that that’s the company core value, it’s having the processes and the systems and the accountability and all of that, because it’s really important that everybody fully understands the intent of that. And so that they know what they need to do to embody and deliver on that.
Caitlin Bacher:
I’m so glad you said that. And I love that word intent because if people don’t understand why that is a core value, like specifically with personal responsibility, if people don’t understand why that is there or how it will serve them and support them on their journey within your company, there’s not going to be any buy-in. The second thing that is really important when it comes to building and leading a profitable team without micromanaging, is that you want to make sure that you’re using a proven process to determine what next hire will have the best chance of increasing your profitability. So, we online course creators, we run businesses a little bit differently than other industries, where first they spend a lot of time fundraising, they fundraise and essentially have this pool of revenue that they have money that they can draw from, that they can then use to hire people and do this and that for a specific amount of time.
Caitlin Bacher:
But for online course creators, we require profit like pretty soon because a lot of times we are bootstrapping our business and the more money we make, the more we can then reinvest back into the business. And the reality is when it comes to hiring a team, if you hire the wrong person first, you’re not going to see that increase in profitability. And that first person to hire it changes again at every level of the journey, right? The first person that you need to hire once you’re at $15K per month is different than the first person you need to hire when you’re already at $80K per month.
Karie Price:
Yeah. And this causes you to have to slow down a little bit, take a step back and look strategically, which feels stifling in a way, right? It feels like, “But I want to hire you and you just want to move. You want to take action,” but by slowing down and really thinking about it and knowing it’s the right next step, think about that. That’s so much better than having a team, maybe you’ve already started building this team of all these different people and all the time that that’s taking and not seeing that help your profitability. So, slow down just a little bit that next hire though can help accelerate you a lot faster.
Caitlin Bacher:
The third thing that I would say when it comes to really building and leading a profitable team is that you want to make sure that the company structure that you’ve created isn’t overly reliant on any one role, right? And I know that’s… Listen, when we’re just getting started, if our team is literally like two people – yeah, it is going to be overly reliant on one role. And that’s just kind of the way it goes. But as you continue to hire people, one thing that it’s really important to think about is always how can you mitigate risk? For example, if you have someone that maybe they’re going to go on family leave, maybe they’re going to go on vacation for a couple of weeks or whatever it may be, you want to make sure that your company has a lot of stars in it. And it’s not just one superstar on your team who is really carrying the entire weight of the company team and if that one person goes, everything else falls apart, right? You do not want to build that.
Karie Price:
No. So, so risky. You do want to hire and attract superstars. We’re not saying don’t do that. But like Caitlin said, you want to be able to have multiple superstars and create a structure and an environment that allows everybody to step up into those superstar roles.
Caitlin Bacher:
Yeah, that’s true. And I’m so glad you said that too because a lot of times people have this idea of like, “Oh, I’m just going to look for this one person who’s going to swoop into the company and solve all my problems and then everything’s going to change,” but that’s not realistic. And the reality is you as a business owner, need to have a structure in place so that the people that you bring in can develop over time and can really thrive and continue to contribute.
Karie Price:
Because by the way, that’s a really great feeling too. Not only does that benefit your company, but it’s really great to see your team members growing and thriving and excelling and moving into maybe even different roles in your company because that shows their commitment to growth too. And that’s going to benefit you in the long run.
Caitlin Bacher:
Yeah. The other thing that I would say that’s really important to do is to make sure that you’re tracking the right metrics so you have a better pulse on the true health of your company and the performance of your team so that you can identify problems and solve them before it’s too late in multiple departments. And a lot of times, I see people get stuck in sales and marketing only, and sales and marketing is a great place to start out. And that’s one of the things that we focus on showing people how to track when people first come to us, right? Like these are the specific metrics that you need to be tracking with your lead generation and with your webinar and this and that. And that is all extremely important at every level of success. But as you grow, you want to start to track the right metrics in not just sales and marketing, but in product, in client success, in operations and finance and again, it’s one of those things, it changes at every level.
Karie Price:
And I know we keep saying that, we keep saying like one data’s important and what to track and oh, and by the way, it changes at every level. But it’s true because when you’re building your business to your first $10,000 $15,000 a month, you don’t need to be tracking and sidetracked and derailed by the data that you absolutely need to track when you’re over a million dollars. So, we will say that time and time again, but it really is so true. And scaling an online course business is a journey and you need to be prepared for those changes. What got you here, won’t get you there. We say that a lot. And so, knowing where you are and making the right decisions at that stage is really important to get you to the next one.
Caitlin Bacher:
Yes, for sure.
Karie Price:
So I think for me, the biggest takeaway that I would love our listeners to walk away from this episode with is that you can build a rockstar team that runs your business, maybe even better than you can, which is hard for some people to think about, but it is about having the right people at the right time and tracking the right data to help you get there.
Caitlin Bacher:
Yes. Thank you, Karie. So, today we talked a lot about how to build a lean profitable team without micromanaging. And we love to know your biggest challenge when it comes to scaling your online course business. So please send us a DM on Instagram or join our free Facebook group and let us know. Talk soon.
Caitlin Bacher:
Are you ready to scale your online course business so you can impact the lives of more people and create real change in the world? Join us inside our signature program, Scale with Success®, where you’ll get the content, coaching and community you need to successfully implement our proven process to help you scale so you can start reaping the rewards of running a highly profitable online course business. Scale with Success® is a multi-year group coaching experience built for online course creators who are ready to scale their business to and through $1 million with certainty as a result of having the right support at the right time. What are you waiting for? Click over to scalewithsuccess.com and apply now.
Today’s episode is brought to you by Scale With Success® Accelerator — an online course designed to help you generate launch-sized revenue without lanching. If you want to learn MORE about our proven method for success, click here to watch my free masterclass. See you in there!